Coming of Age with Nuance: Talking with Josh Wiggins & Darren Mann from 'Giant Little Ones'

Canadian filmmaker Keith Behrman's second full-length feature, "Giant Little Ones," explores sexual identity and orientation in a refreshingly honest and decidedly ambiguous manner. Sweet and obliging Franky (Josh Wiggins) and hot jock Ballas (Darren Mann) have been best friends forever. Both are on the high school swim team and often hang out together. On the night of Franky's birthday both boys experience something sexual under the covers and, from there, the film takes on an almost thriller like examination of the tricky waters known as teen sexual angst, where societal expectations truly mess with real feelings.

Kyle MacLachlan is featured as Franky's gay dad who left his mom (Maria Bello) to be with a man. Franky's relationship with him is strained at best.

The film is anchored by a deeply convincing, nuanced turn by Wiggins, who is fast becoming one of today's best young actors. He was literally discovered via YouTube videos he made splashing in his first feature "Hellion," opposite Aaron Paul in 2014. He's since etched indelible portrayals in "Mean Dreams," "The Bachelors," and last year's underrated "Walking Out" opposite Matt Bomer.

Mann is no slouch, achieving the impossible: Sympathy for a character that is so repressed all he can do is continuously lash out at the person he most loves. He began acting as a child, took a professional hockey break, and then returned to add an array of TV and film credits to his resume, including "Chilling Adventures of Sabrina" on Netflix and the indie cult film "Even Lambs Have Teeth."

Getting Cast

EDGE recently spoke with the two rising young talents.

EDGE: How did you both get involved with "Giant Little Ones?"

Josh Wiggins: I'd worked with Allison Black, the producer, on "Mean Dreams," that her husband (Kat Candler) directed, so we had a tight relationship since then. We were in L.A., got dinner together, and afterwards she told me about the script. And the way she was describing it, there were just so many nuances and complex relationships and dynamics, and it just immediately caught my attention... I read it and I really responded to it. And I was cast from there.

Darren Mann: I read the script and I taped for it because they were casting out of Toronto and I was in Vancouver. And then about a month or so later I had a callback with Keith – he flew out to Vancouver for some callbacks – and from there I think I had at least two dinners with them, and then a coffee, and then we did a chemistry test with Taylor, Josh and me. And eventually we made a movie.

A Difficult Scene?

EDGE: Was there a particular scene that proved more challenging to film than the others?

Josh Wiggins: There's definitely an immediate response to that question from me and Darren – the gas station scene towards the end when we fight. It's obviously physically taxing and demanding, but there's also a lot of emotion in that scene. It's the crumbling of a lifelong friendship. It's really heartbreaking. So you kind of have to play with that dynamic, but also remain physical and angry. There are so many moving parts to it.

Darren Mann: Yeah, I was just going to reiterate what Josh said. Definitely, that was the most difficult in the sense that it was the most physically and emotionally exhausting, but at the same time it was also my favorite scene to shoot... there was so much to work with as an actor. Those are the kind of scenes you dream to get to do. And I'm so happy with the way it turned out.

Working with Keith Behrman

EDGE: Tell me a bit about your respective processes and what it was like working with Keith.

Josh Wiggins: Keith's a super open guy. As actors you want to work with somebody who's very collaborative and not married to any text and is willing to discuss the character. And that's who Keith is. With that style, I find the character as I go. So it's his authentic writing and my interpretation of the character and his interpretation, and those morph into what the character becomes.

Darren Mann: I just tried to really put myself in Ballas's shoes and go on the journey with him... just to imagine what it would be like to be in this situation as a high school kid lost and confused and unsure of himself, and trying to figure out where he stands. And working with Keith – he's so open, and you never worry about going to him with any question or concern. He wants to hear everything you're thinking about.

Honest Depiction of Sexuality

EDGE: The sexual identity exploration in the film is really honest and felt really now. It doesn't force anyone into any kind of box. Was there much discussion about it onset?

Darren Mann: I think beforehand Keith had quite a few conversations with me about Ballas and my backstory, and making sure it was all really clear so I really had a sturdy ground to play off of. We talked about, Do you think Ballas is gay... straight, bisexual, what-have-you? And for me, he doesn't know what he is. He's in the discovery phase. And he's really lost and scared, and I think that's what really drives Ballas. That he's fearful of not knowing what he is.

Josh Wiggins: I think what sets this film apart from other films that cover the same subject matter is kind of, as you said, at the end it's not who identifies with what sexual orientation, it's more just that this person is who they are and there's no need to really elaborate any further. I think that last scene with Kyle really illustrates that point, really drives it home, especially coming from a character who is a gay man. So it really adds a lot of layers and depth coming from him saying, Look you don't need to subscribe to any identity or label. It's whatever you feel. Focus on who you're drawn to, and don't worry too much about what to call it. I think that encapsulates the movie really well.

A Pain in the Butt?

EDGE: That scene was telling. The line Franky speaks, "It felt normal at the time," we don't often get that in films. What was it like working with Kyle?

Josh Wiggins: It was awesome. He's an incredibly easy person to get along with and work with. You're always a little bit worried with the more established actors who have been around a long time, some of them become a little numb to the process and can be a little bit unamazing to be around. Kyle was so much fun to work with, and in between takes had me cracking up. He has a self-aware goofiness to him and creates a really nice environment on set. And on top of that, he's obviously an incredibly talented actor.

EDGE: As actors you enjoy the process. What about the rest of it? Like this part – the promo part? Is it exciting for you, or is it just one big pain in the butt you have to get through?

Josh Wiggins: This whole interview's a pain in the ass. (Laughter) No, no. Totally kidding. It depends. There are obviously some interviews where you get asked questions that you've heard before. And there are others, like this one, where you have really rewarding conversations. I think any time you can further discuss what you've done artistically and the project that you're part of, that's what you want. You want to explore those things and reach out to people so they can hear what you've explored, and hopefully they can hop on board, too.

Darren Mann: I absolutely, honestly, truly love everyone who was involved with this movie, and I feel like I've created amazing lifelong friendships and bonds that I am happy to do whatever it is that they need me to do to help push this movie so a greater audience sees it, and hopefully help people and change their perspectives for the better. I'm really proud of the film, so that makes it easy to do this stuff.

Pretty Emotional

EDGE: When you first saw the film, what was your reaction? Was it what you thought it would be?

Darren Mann: I first saw it at TIFF (Toronto International Film Festival)... my reaction was: Holy shit, everybody else did such a fantastic job. All the scenes I never saw because I wasn't in. I was just so proud of everyone and how great –

Josh Wiggins: Give yourself a little credit.

(Laughter)

Darren Mann: But truly, I think that Keith and Allison did such a good job casting all the roles. They're all so significant, and that's what really made this movie... it was pretty emotional watching it because of how much I enjoyed it.

Josh Wiggins: You never really know how a movie's going to turn out. You have an image of it in your mind while you're shooting, and nine times out of ten it's never what you pictured. And when I first saw it, I was really emotional at the end. It's a movie that tackles themes that I haven't been able to be a part of, and to be a part of a movie that does that – and not only themes of sexual identity but covers so much ground – relationships and tensions between family and friends – it's really cool to be a part of.

Are Things Improving?

EDGE: How has the response been?

Darren Mann: I'd say 99% of people that I talk to are just absolutely thrilled, and 1% of people wonder why they didn't get to see more skin, and I tell them to log on to Porn Hub.

EDGE: To have that beef with the film seems ridiculous.

Darren Mann: Speaking to that, I absolutely love that Keith made that decision. 'Cause I think it would have taken away from the story. I love that he kept it ambiguous and questioning it. That also goes along with the story of us finding out as the characters are unraveling and figuring it out, too.

EDGE: Do you see your generation's acceptance of people's sexual identity and orientation improving on the past generations?

Josh Wiggins: Yeah, man, definitely. There's always progress to be done, but at the same time there's a lot of progress being made. I think in this age of constant connection with each other through technology, social media, whatever – there's downsides to it, but also I think people can be exposed to a lot of different lifestyles... And I think the cool thing about this movie is that it can reach people who may not be as enlightened... you want to reach people in the LGBTQ community, but also reach people who may not be as familiar with the subject matter and therefore don't know much about or are hesitant to learn about it. So being a part of a movie that can reach both audiences in a really accessible way is really special.

Who do You Want to Work With?

EDGE: Finally, if you could work with an actor or actress living or dead, whom would you choose?

Darren Mann: Go ahead, Josh, I gotta think about this...

Josh Wiggins: I feel like this is an incredibly clich� answer, but it's clich� for a reason: Dicaprio... I think he's the gold standard for anyone that wants to be in the industry.

Darren Mann: Brad Pitt, for sure. I love the stuff he's done... Some of the roles his done – "Fight Club," "Troy," "River Runs Through It" – he has a really cool cool resume. He also seems like he'd be a really cool guy to hang out with between scenes. And Tom Hardy. He's a big idol of mine, and I love his work.

"Giant Little Ones" is currently playing in limited release. For more information, visit the Giant Little Ones website.